Week 19: John 6:60-71; "Will you stay or will you go now?"

Week 19: John 6:60-71; "Should we stay or should we go now?" This week, we will make our final push to get through John 6. We were supposed to read this entire chapter at once, as a single story. But instead, it took me four weeks. Let's start this morning, one last time, at John 6:22. This picks up our story after Jesus fed the 5,000 people, and after he walked on the water: (22) On the next day, the crowd-- the one standing on the other side of the Sea-- saw that other boats weren't there, except only one, and that he hadn't entered with his disciples-- Jesus-- into the boat, but his disciples alone had departed, but boats from Tiberias came near the place where they ate the bread/loaf, after the Lord gave thanks. (24) Then, when the crowd saw that Jesus isn't there, nor his disciples, they themselves got into the boats, and they came to Capernaum, seeking Jesus, (25) and finding him on the other side of the Sea, they said to him, "Rabbi, when here did you get?" (26) He replied to them-- Jesus-- and he said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate from the breads/loaves, and you were filled/satisfied. (27) Don't work for the food-- the one perishing/being lost, but the food-- the one abiding for eternal life, which the son of man to you will give. For this one, The Father-- the God-- has set his seal on. (28) Then, they said to him, "What shall we do, in order that we may work the works of God?" (29) Jesus answered, and he said to them, "This is the work of God: that you give allegiance to the one whom That One sent." (30) Then, they said to him, "Then what sign do you do, in order that we may see it, and give allegiance to you? What will you work? Our fathers, the manna, they ate in the wilderness, just as it is written, "Bread from heaven he gave them to eat." (32) Then, he said to them-- Jesus-- "Truly, truly, I say to you, Moses hasn't give you the bread from heaven, but my father is giving you the bread from heaven-- the true one. For the bread of God is the one coming down from heaven, and life giving to the world." (34) Then, they said to him, "Lord/sir, always give to us this bread." (35) He said to them-- Jesus-- "I am the bread of life. The one coming toward me will absolutely never hunger, and the one giving allegiance to me will absolutely never thirst again, but I said to you, that indeed you have seen me, and you don't believe/give allegiance. (37) Each one whom the Father gives, toward me he will come, and the one coming toward me I will absolutely never throw out, because I have come down from heaven, not in order that I would do my will, but the will of The One Sending me. (39) Now, this is the will of The One Sending me: that each one whom He has given me, I would not lose any of them, but I will raise them up on the last day. (46) For this is the will of my Father, that each one looking at the son and giving allegiance to him would have eternal life, and I will raise him-- I-- on the last day. (41) Then, the Judeans were grumbling about him because he said, "I am the bread-- the one coming down from heaven," (42) and they were saying, "Is this not Jesus the son of Joseph, whose, we know the father and the mother? How now does he say that "from heaven I have come down"? (43) Jesus answered, and he said to them, "Don't grumble with one another. No one is able to come toward me, unless only the Father-- the One Sending me-- draws him, and I will raise him on the last day. (45) It is written in the prophets, "And they will all be taught by God." Each one hearing from the Father and learning comes toward me. (46) It is not that, the Father, anyone has seen, except only the one being from God. This one has seen the Father. (47) Truly, truly, I say to you, the one believing/giving allegiance has eternal life. (48) I am the bread of life. (49) Your fathers ate in the wilderness, the manna, and they died. (50) This is the bread-- the one from heaven coming down, that each one from it may/shall eat, and he may/shall not die. (51) I am the living bread-- the one from heaven coming down. If anyone eats from this bread, he will live forever. Now, also, the bread that I will give, my flesh it is, for life of the world. (52) Then, they were fighting/quarreling with one another-- the Judeans-- saying, "How is this one able to us to give his flesh to eat?" (53) Then he said to them-- Jesus-- "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and you drink his blood, you don't have life in yourselves. The one eating my flesh and drinking my blood has eternal life, and I will rise him on the last day. For my flesh, true food it is, and my blood, true drink it is. (56) The one eating my flesh and drinking my blood, in me abides, and I in him. (57) Just as He sent me-- The Living Father-- and I live because of the Father, so also the one eating me-- that one-- will live because of me. (58) This is the bread-- the one from heaven coming down-- not just as the fathers ate and they died. The one eating this bread will live forever. (59) These things he said in the synagogue, teaching in Capernaum. Now, at this point, in verse 60, our story shifts characters. Jesus is done talking with Judeans. They've proven themselves to be incapable of learning. They've become hardened in their unbelief, and they refuse to come to Jesus. Instead, now, we are going to hear a conversation between Jesus and his disciples. And we find ourselves thinking, even if the Judeans are hopeless, at least Jesus still has other people who have come to him, and given their allegiance to him. He still has his disciples. Verse 60: (60) Then, many, hearing from among his disciples, said, "Hard/tough, this word is.1 Who is able, it, to hear? Jesus has said a lot of things in chapter 6 that are hard, or tough, to believe. It's hard to believe that Jesus was sent by God from heaven. That Jesus is greater than Moses. That Jesus can give you a superior life to what Moses offered-- that Jesus can give eternal life. And so they ask a question among themselves: Who is able, this word, to hear? Who can take that step, and believe what Jesus has said? (61) Now, knowing-- Jesus-- in himself that they are grumbling about this-- his disciples--2 he said to them, "This, you, does it cause to stumble?" (62) Then, [what] if you see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?" Jesus sees right through his disciples, and he knows that they are struggling with his words. It's not just the Judeans who have a hard time believing that Jesus is who he says he is, and that he can offer what he claims. It's Jesus' own disciples. They are stumbling over his words. And so Jesus asks them a question in verse 62: Would it help you, if you saw the Son of Man ascending to where he came from? Imagine having the privilege of seeing Jesus returning to heaven. Would that help you? Would that convince you that Jesus is from above? I think it would. Jesus' words are easier to accept now, from the other side of the resurrection and ascension. His ascension is proof that Jesus is from heaven. It's proof that Jesus is who he says, and he can give what he claims to give. Let's read from verses 63-66, and then go back verse by verse: (63) The Spirit is the one giving/making life. The flesh doesn't profit anything. The words that I have spoken to you, Spirit/spirit, they are, and life, they are, (64) but there are from among you some who don't believe/give allegiance. For he knew from the beginning-- Jesus-- who they are-- the ones not believing/giving allegiance, and who it is-- the one betraying/handing over him,3 (65) and he was saying, "For this reason I have said to you that no one is able to come toward me, unless only it has been given to him from the Father." (66) From this [point], many from his disciples departed toward the things behind,4 and no longer with him5 they were walking. Verse 63: (63) The Spirit is the one giving/making life. The flesh doesn't profit anything. The words that I have spoken to you, Spirit/spirit, they are, and life, they are, I think the point of this verse, is that Jesus' words are Spiritual words. And they can only be understood through the Spirit (cf. John 3:8). If you try to understand them from a lower, earthly, human level, you're going to be hopelessly lost. Jesus' words won't bring you any profit. Now, how can you understand Spiritual words? Verse 63 frames verse 64 (it's the first half, of a point-counterpoint set): (64) but there are from among you some who don't believe/give allegiance. For he knew from the beginning-- Jesus-- who they are-- the ones not believing/giving allegiance, and who it is-- the one betraying/handing over him,6 The only people who can understand Jesus' words-- Spiritual words-- are those who have given their allegiance to Jesus. If you refuse to take that step, you can't understand what Jesus teaches. You have to be born from above, to understand the teaching from above. AJ then openly reveals himself in the second sentence in verse 64, to help us understand all of this (by giving us a "for" statement.) Jesus, looking at his disciples, knew that not everyone in that group, had truly, fully, given their allegiance to Jesus. There was something wrong with their commitment to him. And, this flaw (, mostly likely,) had to do with Moses. They are trying to hold onto Moses and Jesus-- Judaism and Christianity. And that simply doesn't work. AJ then tells us that Jesus knew about even bigger flaw in one of his disciples. Someone is going to betray him. Jesus was aware, not only of this plot, but of who is plotting against him. None of this was a surprise. Verse 65: (65) and he was saying, "For this reason I have said to you that no one is able to come toward me, unless only it7 has been given to him from the Father." This is a hard verse. And there's a lot of debate about what exactly Jesus means here. But let me take a crack at it: The only possible way that anyone can come toward Jesus, and become his disciple, is if the Father gives that ability to them. And the implication of this, then, is that some of the disciples Jesus is addressing, haven't been given that ability. ---------------------------------------------------------- Ryle says this as clearly as anyone can say it: And he said, Therefore said I, etc., etc.] The connection of this verse seems to be as follows:-"There are some of you that believe not, and that is the reason why I said to you, that no man can come to me unless the Father gives him grace to come, and draws his heart to me. The Father has not given you grace, and drawn you to me, and therefore you do not believe."8 -------------------------------------------------------------- The question is, why? What's keeping even some of Jesus' own disciples, from fully accepting Jesus' word, and giving their total allegiance to Jesus? Is the limitation/problem on God's end? Does God choose some, and not others? Or is the problem on people's end? I think the answer to this is found in verse 60: (60) Then, many, hearing from among his disciples, said, "Hard/tough, this word is.9 Who is able, it, to hear? That's the key question. Who can "hear" Jesus' word? Many of Jesus' disciples aren't able to "hear" Jesus. Now let's read John 6:45: (45) It is written in the prophets, "And they will all be taught by God." Each one hearing from the Father and learning comes toward me. God takes the first step, in everyone who comes to Jesus. God teaches everyone. Everyone should hear God's voice. And if you are open to God's voice, and open to learning, you join the group of people who come to Jesus. That is the group of people that God gives to his son for safekeeping. But not everyone receives what God gives. If you prefer darkness to light, you won't hear God and learn from him (John 3:19-21). If you are stuck thinking that Moses is the big deal, you won't be able to hear God tell you that there is someone greater, offering you something better. The Father can only give people understanding, who want understanding. He doesn't force himself on anyone. He doesn't force people to listen. And so Jesus tells his disciples here-- the ones who are struggling with his hard teaching-- that it hasn't been given to them, to come to Jesus. There is something fundamentally flawed with some of Jesus' disciples. It's not that God doesn't want to give it to them. It's not that God hasn't been trying to teach them. And it's not that Jesus won't work hard to help people overcome their unbelief. This ability to come to Jesus, fully, hasn't been given to them, because they are unwilling to receive it. They aren't willing to "hear." And the reason these particular disciples are unwilling to hear Jesus' words, is because of the overemphasis they place on Moses. They can't accept that Jesus is the Passover Lamb, and that his bread gives eternal life. They are trying to give allegiance to Jesus and Moses. But you have to choose, one or the other. Verse 66: (66) From this [time/point],10 many from his disciples departed toward the things behind,11 and no longer with him12 they were walking. Many of Jesus' disciples, hearing his word (or, better, not being able to hear his word), fall away. They had started by asking the question, "Who can hear this word?" And the answer is, "Not them." Jesus claims too much; he demands too much. And it's too hard. And so they go back to their own way of life-- presumably, back to Judaism. They stop walking with Jesus. Now, when they did this, it was no surprise to Jesus. We would find it painful. We'd wonder if we were doing something wrong. But Jesus knew that some of them had a flawed faith. So at this point, in chapter 6, we've seen Jesus interact with the crowds, and the crowds reject Jesus and become hostile (Judeans). We've seen Jesus interact with his disciples, and many of them fall away. Who is even left? Starting in verse 67, we find Jesus talking to the inner circle-- to the twelve: (67) Then, he said-- Jesus-- to the twelve, "You don't also wish to go, right?"13 (68) He answered him-- Simon Peter-- "Lord/sir, toward whom/what would we go? The words of eternal life you have, (69) and we have believed/given allegiance, and we have known that you are the Holy One of God." Peter says, "We twelve are committed to you. We know the truth-- you have the words of eternal life; you are the Holy One of God." (70) He answered them-- Jesus-- "Did I not choose you-- the twelve?, and14 from among you, one, the devil, he is. (71) Now, he was speaking15 about Judas son of Simon Iscariot. For this one was about to hand over/betray him-- one of the twelve. Jesus doesn't praise Peter for his knowledge here. Instead, he says that Peter doesn't quite have it right. 12 of you don't believe this; 12 don't give their allegiance. 1 of you is the devil. And so, in fact, there are only 11. So what we've seen in chapter 6, from the start to the finish, is that everything appears to be falling apart (except that Jesus knew how this would all play out). At the start of the chapter, thousands of people are coming to Jesus, seeking him. Halfway through chapter 6, the crowd receives Jesus as prophet-king, as the one like Moses. And they try to seize him, and make this happen. But Jesus refuses to accept this. Jesus is, in some ways, "like" Moses. He is the fulfillment of the prophecy that one like Moses would come (Deut. 18:18). But he is so much more than this. What he offers, is so much more than this. And it's the "more than this" part, that causes almost everyone to fall away. "Judeans" can't handle Jesus saying that he is greater than Moses, and that he offers a greater grace. They can't handle Jesus saying that he is the true bread from heaven. That he can give eternal life to his people, in a way that Moses could not. And so they reject him. And, at this point in the book, this doesn't surprise us. "Judeans" are wicked and stubborn, and refuse to learn. But what does surprise us, is how Jesus' words are heard by his own disciples. Many people have heard Jesus' words, and come to Jesus, and abided with him, and walked with him. They are doing most of the verbs you are supposed to do, to be his disciples. But then they stop. They turn back to their old way of life-- to the things they left behind. They stop walking with Jesus. On one level, this surprises us. But, at the same time, we can also think of people in our own lives who have done the same thing. Lots of people walked with Jesus, for a time. They gave their allegiance to Jesus (John 2:21-23). They were baptized; they ate Jesus' flesh, and drank his blood. They worked by your side in the church, and prayed with you, and for you. They've been a blessing to you. You considered them your brothers and sisters in Christ. And at some point, for different reasons, they walked away from all of it. How is this possible? How can you get so many verbs right, at least for a while, and then fall away? A partial answer-- I think it's only partial-- is that some of these disciples were not full disciples. Faith is something that has to mature, and grow, over time. And if it doesn't, or if things (/bad theology) get in the way, you are vulnerable. There is a potentially fatal flaw in your allegiance. We could spend a lot of time agonizing over why people leave. We could set out different explanations for why this or that person is gone. And let me just stop, for a minute. Some of you sharply disagree about why people leave, theologically. Some of you would self-identify as Calvinists. Others, as Armenians. And when you read passages like this, your tendency, maybe, is to try to fit passages like this into your theology. You value these verses as proof-texts, to defend and build your theology. You want to use these verses either to say that true disciples can fall away (Armenians), or that they weren't true disciples, and so they left (Calvinists). And if this is you, and you find yourself wanting to do this here, let me say something to you, as nicely as I know how: You are screwing up the most important thing. When you look at these two groups of disciples in John 6-- the ones who left, and the ones who stayed-- it should force you to stop, and think about yourselves. The real question we should have, is this: What will we do next? Each of us has to make our own decision about Jesus. Each of us has to answer Jesus' question: "You don't also wish to go, right?" Will you stay, and abide, or will you go? Being one of Jesus' disciples is not just about that initial moment of coming to Jesus, and that first commitment. It's not about praying a sinner's prayer one time. Allegiance is a lifelong thing. Something I have to decide, again, today. So today, I believe that Peter is right. Today, I set myself with the eleven. Jesus is the Holy One of God. Jesus has eternal life. Where else would I possibly go? Today, I give my allegiance to Jesus. And I do so, knowing that it's only by sticking to Jesus, and with Jesus, that I have eternal life (John 17:3 style). What will you do? Translation: (60) Then, many, hearing from among his disciples, said, "Hard/tough, this word is.16 Who is able, it, to hear? (61) Now, knowing-- Jesus-- in himself that they are grumbling about this-- his disciples-- he said to them, "This, you, does it cause to stumble?" (62) Then, [what] if you see the son of man ascending to where he was before?" (63) The Spirit is the one giving/making life. The flesh doesn't profit anything. The words that I have spoken to you, Spirit/spirit, they are, and life, they are, (64) but there are from among you some who don't believe/give allegiance. For he knew from the beginning-- Jesus-- who they are-- the ones not believing, and who it is-- the one betraying/handing over him, (65) and he was saying, "For this reason I have said to you that no one is able to come toward me, unless only it has been given to him from the Father." (66) From this [point], many from his disciples departed toward the things behind,17 and no longer with him they were walking. (67) Then, he said-- Jesus-- to the twelve, "You don't also wish to go, right?"18 (68) He answered him-- Simon Peter-- "Lord/sir, toward whom/what would we go? The words of eternal life you have, (69) and we have believed/given allegiance, and we have known that you are the Holy One of God." (70) He answered them-- Jesus-- "Did I not choose you-- the twelve?, and19 from among you, one, the devil, he is. (71) Now, he was speaking20 about Judas son of Simon Iscariot. For this one was about to hand over/betray him-- one of the twelve. 1 Jesus says he's bread, and that he offers bread. But many of the ones hearing are finding it difficult to swallow-- it's a "hard/tough" teaching. One commentator translates it as a "stale" word. 2 his disciples are "grumbling," just as the Judeans grumbled. 3 This "for" statement is AJ inserting an explanation. 4 The cross before me; the world behind me. 5 "with him" is maybe focused. "No longer" is normally in this spot, in Greek word order. 6 This "for" statement is AJ inserting an explanation. 7 what is "it"? The "ability/being able" to come? Jesus seems to be saying that they haven't come to Jesus, really, fully, because they are excluded. It hasn't been given to them. 8 Ryle, J. C. (1879). Expository Thoughts on John (Vol. 1, p. 414). New York: Robert Carter & Brothers. 9 Jesus says he's bread, and that he offers bread. But many of the ones hearing are finding it difficult to swallow-- it's a "hard/tough" teaching. One commentator translates it as a "stale" word. 10 Ἐκ τούτου . I take it to mean "from this point," which is how it's used in John 19:12. "From then on Pilate was seeking to release him." So also NIV, ESV. BDAG suggests a gloss of "because of this" (see NRSV; NASB). Moulton, Vocabular of the NT, gives several examples of it meaning this. 11 The cross before me; the world behind me. 12 "with him" is maybe focused. "No longer" is normally in this spot, in Greek word order. 13 Jesus expects the answer to be "no." 14 it's "and" here, not "but." Both are true. Jesus chose him, knowing who he really was, seeing right through him. 15 here, imperfect verb functioning as an explanation. 16 Jesus says he's bread, and that he offers bread. But many of the ones hearing are finding it difficult to swallow-- it's a "hard/tough" teaching. One commentator translates it as a "stale" word. 17 The cross before me; the world behind me. 18 Jesus expects the answer to be "no." 19 it's "and" here, not "but." Both are true. Jesus chose him, knowing who he really was, seeing right through him. 20 here, imperfect verb functioning as an explanation. --------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------- ------------------------------------------------------------